Sources said this ``private dialogue'' has been on for five years. The first was held in China, the second in India, the third in Pakistan and this is the fourth one. George Perkovich, the man behind ``non-weaponised deterrence'' is also involved in the meeting. Sources said that from India, P R Chari of Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, is one of those attending. He, however, declined to comment. The Pakistani side will include former foreign secretary Niaz Naik, former foreign minister Abdul Sattar, former army chief Gen Jehangir Karamat and (Retd) Gen K M Arif.