Why did you support Laloo Yadav despite his opposition to a Jhar-khand state?

The Rabri Government had lost its majority in the Bihar Assembly after Laloo formed the Rashtriya Janata Dal (RJD) by splitting the Janata Dal last year. He sought our support on July 14, 1997, after promising to support the Jharkhand movement. We supported him in the confidence vote taken two days later. Inreturn, the RJD Government passed a unanimous resolution to be sent to the Centre, giving its consent to the creation of Jharkhand state, on July 23 last year.

But how could you trust him after he had already split your party in 1992?There was no question of trust or mistrust. It was a simple quid pro quo. We had withdrawn support in 1992 to teach him a lesson. Moreover, we had wanted to get rid of upper caste hegemony in Bihar, which was why we had supported a backward leader in becoming chief minister.

Did you know beforehand that Laloo would oppose the Vananchal Bill?

This was a shrewd political move. He kept us in dark till the last moment. He told me on September 12 that the CPI(M) and some other parties were opposed to the Vananchal Bill but promised the full support of his party to our movement. He also took our vice-president, Suraj Mandal, to the Rashtriya Loktantrik Morcha's Mumbai rally. He had convened an all-party meeting on the Vananchal issue on September 13 but cancelled itat the last moment saying he first wanted to consult his own partymen on September 14. We were taken aback when Laloo suddenly announced on September 14 that Bihar could be divided only over his dead body.

Are you disappointed he has opposed the creation of Jharkhand state yet again?

We are not disappointed because we have already achieved our purpose in getting the Bihar Assembly to pass a unanimous resolution supporting the creation of Vananchal. The Centre prepared the draft Bill for Vananchal on the basis of the Bihar Assembly resolution. Now if the Assembly opposes the draft Bill, the Centre can still go ahead and create the Vananchal state as per Article 3 and 4 of the Constitution. The Centre has already done that by taking Purulia district from Bihar in 1956 and merging it with West Bengal, despite opposition from the then chief minister of Bihar, Krishna Singh.

You were the chairman of the 180-member Jharkhand Area Autonomous Council (JAAC) constituted in 1995. Don't you think itwas a sell-out to Laloo?

The JAAC was only a step closer to separate statehood for Jharkhand. We wanted it to be under control of the Centre but because of political compulsions, we had to accept the state Government's patronage. It gave us a lot of autonomy, including the power to utilise an annual budget of Rs 800 crore -- 37 per cent of the total budget of Bihar.

Do you want Jharkhand only for tribals? After all, they constitute only 30 per cent of the total population of the region?

Jharkhand will be a state of Jharkhandis and not only of tribals. People from all communities living in Jharkhand support the demand for separate statehood to the region.

Don't you support Laloo's concept of a `Greater Jharkhand'?

This is only a ploy to scuttle granting statehood to the Jharkhand region. People from north Bihar have been running extortion rackets (rangdari) in south Bihar. They have been exploiting our natural resources but do not provide jobs to our people. They have even beenusurping the land of gullible tribals...A greater Jharkhand would mean the continuance of the same exploitation.

But hasn't the JMM leadership too compromised itself? It has been accused of exploiting the local people. After all, you all have personally benefited from this, haven't you?

Why don't you put the same question to those who have stashed millions and billions of rupees in Swiss banks? You accuse us of dishonesty only because we are innocent tribals unaware of political intrigue. Nobody questioned the Rs 87 crore found in Biju Patnaik's bank account or the Rs 45 crore in the BJP's account. There is no truth in the allegations against us. We can never exploit our own people, who hold us in very high esteem. I came to politics after my father was killed by traders in 1957 and the police started hounding me. We did not take bribes from anyone. The money seized from our bank accounts was, in fact, donations from party workers. Even the Supreme Court has absolved us of all these trumped-upcharges.

But hasn't your own man, Shailendra Mahato, confessed to taking bribes from Congress leaders to bail out the P.V. Narasimha Rao government in 1993?

See where Mahato is today -- in the BJP. He gave a sworn affidavit not once but thrice under Section 164, denying having received any money. But then after one year he started singing the CBI's tune. He was clearly a CBI plant put there at the behest of the BJP. His wife today is a BJP Member of Parliament.

But why would the BJP want to frame you all?

Simply because they want to let us down in our people's estimation and capture our vote bank in the Jharkhand region.

Since you could not win even one of the 14 Lok Sabha seats in the Jharkhand region in March 1998 election, doesn't it mean that your credibility has been eroded?

Why don't you question the credibility of Laloo Yadav, who also failed to win even a single seat in the region? In fact, our vote share had increased but we could not win seats because of thepolarisation of votes.

What do you have to say about the allegation that you killed your own private assistant, S.N. Jha, because he knew too much and could spill the beans?

The police kept on searching for Jha for more than two years but did not find anything. Then the CBI made Jha's daughter hurl such wild allegations against me, four years after he had disappeared. The body exhumed by the CBI does not belong to Jha. Even his family has refused to identify it. It belonged to a man called Alimullah, and his brother has already identified the body. But the CBI is still harassing me.

You were the chairman of the JAAC. Do you hope to become the first chief minister of Vananchal state as well?

(Laughs) I have no hopes. Any one from Jharkhand can become chief minister. If people ask me, I too can become chief minister.