There is a feeling that the BSP is losing its clout.
This is totally incorrect and fabricated. The BSP is not a political party but a political movement. We are not interested in gaining political mileage. The party was formed to champion the cause of the Dalits, backwards and the people belonging to the minority communities. Some political parties, for whom the BSP is a threat, are trying to spread rumours to tarnish the image of the party. It is true that in the last Assembly elections held in Delhi, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, the performance of the BSP was dismal but it can't be made a scalefor assessing the political clout of the party. The BSP has no base in these states. The BSP's home state is Uttar Pradesh and we are sure to form the next government in UP.

Keeping in view the statistics, political analysts are of the view that the BSP is incapable of fighting elections -- Assembly or Parliament -- on its own and it will have to have an electoral alliance either with the BJP, the Congress or the Samajwadi Party?
After my government collapsed in UP, we decided not to have any electoral alliance, either pre- or post-poll, with any political party. In my opinion, there is hardly any difference between the Congress or the BJP. Both the parties are Manuwadi. While the BJP is a communal party, the Congress is anti-Dalit. The Dalits and backward communities will not pardon the Congress for opposing President's Rule in Bihar. Dono ek hi sikkey ke do pahlu hain. Whenever we have gone in for any alliance with any political party, we have been the loser. We don't want to repeat ourmistakes.

Why are you so rigid about it?
It is not our rigidity. It is our compulsion. We don't want to strengthen other political parties at our cost. In 1996, the BSP had an alliance with the Congress. As the BSP's votes are transferable, the Congress bagged 67 seats in Assembly and the BSP got 33. Jab dusre ka vote BSP ko transfer nahin hota hai to phir alliance kyon kiya jaye?

Your party supported the resolution on imposition of President's Rule in Bihar in the Lok Sabha. Does it mean that you have some agreement with the BJP?
Extending support to the resolution does not mean that the BSP has an agreement with the BJP. We extended support for the resolution, which was implemented to curb the atrocities and exploitation against the Dalits in Bihar. Since our party was formed to protect the life and property of the Dailts and give them due share in both the economic and the political arena, it was our duty to support the resolution. Unfortunately, the Congress's decision to opposethe resolution in both the Houses enabled the Rashtriya Janata Dal (RJD) to form the government again. This is very unfortunate for the Indian democracy and the Congress will pay a heavy cost for this.

So you are opposing the reinstallation of the Rabri Devi government in Bihar?
Yes. No Dalit is safe in the RJD-ruled State. Political parties, whether the Congress or the BJP or its ally Samata Party or the RJD are protecting and patronising private armies to settle their political scores. In the last eight massacres which took place during RJD rule in South and Central Bihar districts, the Dalits and downtrodden were made scapegoats.Yeh sabhi kya katney ke liye hi paida huae hain?

Do you see any fault in the organisational set-up of the party as claimed by senior party leaders. They allege that both you and party president Kanshi Ram are running the show.
No. This is totally incorrect and baseless. We are not running our show in the party. Kanshi Ram is party president and I am nationalvice-president. It is incorrect to say that there is no second-line leader. I am the second-line leader of the party. However, in view of the coming elections in various States early next year, we are trying to revamp the organisational set-up in various States to make our units more friendly to Dalits. Instead of strengthening party, we are trying to strengthen Bahujan Samaj in the country.

Recently you said that the BJP and the Congress are your `Number One' enemies. Do you have a plan to counter them in UP?
We have launched massive campaigns throughout the country to unite all Dalits, backwards, Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and other weaker sections. Of course, the focus will be on UP, the mother State of the BSP. Almost all political parties are trying to concentrate on UP and Bihar. The people, especially the Dalits, SCs, STs, OBCs and minorities (Muslims) have lost confidence in the Congress and the Samajwadi Party. The Muslims, one-time supporters of the SP, are still confused.Similar is the fate with the BJP. The internal bickering within the BJP is likely to play a key role in its defeat. I am confident of getting a clear majority in the State in the next election.

Does it mean that the Kalayan Singh Government will go?
Yes. Kalyan Singh government is parasitic. Jis din Vajpayee ki sarkar Dilli mein jayegi, Kalyan Singh ki sarkar ko koi bhi nahin bacha saqta hai. (The day Vajpayee government falls, no one will be able to save the Kalyan Singh government.)